Rankings (preliminary)

THE DOC wrote:You can please some of the people some of the time but never all the people all of the time. Most of us have work and/or families and cant committ to two days of stickball for single games with twice the travel and tolls when it all can be done in one day as it is all season long. Most of us just want to play and dont care about trivial things like field locstion since it effects bith teams equally and helps neither. To me its a simple solution that also addresses playoff rain now we can play on sunday. A shame only a few showed to rules meeting maybe a better turn out next year.

Dave, I'm not breaking balls. I just want logical solutions to problems when they come up. That's all. And I hate when you bring up your rules meetings. They leave so much to be desired. You bring multiple players from your team and give them the same # of votes as each captain gets if they show up. How is that democratic? We have the internet, as this board shows, where a vote can be taken on any subject at any time. Each captain should get one vote. The captains take the responsibility to run their teams, and pay you the $300 per season, so the least you can do is give them the respect to be given one vote each on subjects of importance.

As for field locations: I'm glad you don't care where you play. Since 3 of the 4 teams in my bracket are having to travel unnecessarily over a bridge into Queens when they should be playing in New Rochelle, and since 3 of the top 4 teams are playing away when they should be playing home then maybe you will volunteer to have your bracket play in Queens. This way the Sluggers can have the home game they deserve, and the Ropes and Pelham can have the home games they deserve. This will also mean less traveling for the "whole" league rather than just for your team.

It is not trivial to me that players on my team must travel from Mahopac to Queens when we should be playing in New Rochelle. But since it is trivial to you, then maybe you can go play in Queens. You claim it is no big deal.

lightsout wrote:just exactly who's bright idea was it to have the #2 travel? and apparently this was decided at the rules meeting? lolwut - come on.

Since someone asked, in fairness I wasn't there but was told by someone who was.

Dave brought it to a vote and everyone voted against it, Dave over ruled everyone and said he was doing it anyway.

Dave please feel free to correct me if I'm getting some of the facts mixed up.

I think if two teams are able to play they should but for the same token that does give the winning team an unfair advantage, so I second what Joey Batts n Doc said all or nothing.
As far as fields and shit. I get it no one really wants to travel I mean i dont but it is what it is. I dont think giving DOC sh*t on that is necessary, whoever makes that decision is going to be unpopular decision regardless for half the traveling teams always. Now that some ears are listening, I do think its imperative for all captains to vote regardless of attendance or not, maybe the night before DOC or someone can do a blank email ballot to get the missing captains votes to even the playing ground after all there are 8 teams now maybe only 6 by spring. Sad sad sad when I joined in 03 we had 20 + teams, wtf happened?? I think what Ross is doing is highly commendable with STICKBALL.TV what a clever cost effective idea kudos to u bitch... lol, but on a serious note league fee should implement camera equipment to try and get new stickball blood going, i think those videos are great for all aspects, viral and direct marketing although it may be time consuming in time im sure it gets easier to produce, anyhow it may work we may get new teams, we need to blast stickers with stickball.tv everywhere like the business cards were distributed... Idk any ideas...

Good points fab, but do u want to play playoff games two days in a row and have to clear two days or get both in on sat like the rest of the season? Its really a simple concept and actually has less traveling and helps with the tournament format as well.

1) If only 2 teams play in Queens then how is it less travel to make half the teams play in Queens?

2) If you vote on something fairly then you can determine whats best for "them". If you take a vote but turn around and tell "them" that their vote don't count, and that you know better than "them" what is best for "them", then "them" might get mad.

All I did was suggest that maybe we should look at the format for next season. Your response, as usual was very condescending, which is why I then went off on you. If you want to find the best solution to this issue then you should have it up for discussion and voted on by "all" teams. If they agree with you then great. If not, and you don't listen, then you are in essence saying you are doing whats best for "you".

And Fab, yes you and Ross are on to a great idea with the videos.

Unfortunately we dont have 4 fields in close proximity to each other. What do u propose?

1&8 @ Murray 2&7 @ Albert Lenard 3&6 @ Buckner 4&5 @ Oceania. lower seed teams should travel more then the higher seed teams being that all top teams are over the bridge the they should stay on that side of the bridge they deserve it. That should solve all the traveling issues.

Great idea Miguel. If Dave volunteers to play at Bruckner instead of Ropes then that will make things even better. That way all the teams are right near each other for both rounds. Or Dave and Ropes can flip a coin for Murray. We have a few days to come up with other solutions if these aren't satisfactory.

Well for present and future use the first place seed should have home field advantage whoever it is. I'm sure everyone would agree.

Miguel SVS wrote:1&8 @ Murray 2&7 @ Albert Lenard 3&6 @ Buckner 4&5 @ Oceania. lower seed teams should travel more then the higher seed teams being that all top teams are over the bridge the they should stay on that side of the bridge they deserve it. That should solve all the traveling issues.

why would the #3 seed Ropes consider playing the #6 seed Stickem-up at their home field?????????????

perhaps ... but other concessions would have to be made by other teams....

we'll see

Then the other thing would be 2&7 @ Buckner then 3&6 @ Albert Lenard either way the top teams stay roughly where they want.

THE DOC wrote:Unfortunately we dont have 4 fields in close proximity to each other. What do u propose?

1 vs. 8 Murray (1 seed gets home field)
2 vs. 7 Albert Leonard (2 seed gets home field)
3 vs. 6 bruckner (3 seed loses home field to the 1 seed because they use the same field)
4 vs. 5 oceana (4 seed gets home field)

3 vs. 6 and 4 vs. 5 Start time 9:00
1 vs. 8 and 2 vs. 7 start time 9:30 to allow for travel time for the winners of the other games.

Almost everyone is happy. Home games for 3 of the top 4 seeds, all second round games played on a field with a straight wall, and the Bulls don't have to miss church on Sunday

Finally a suggestion of a solution instead of bashing (I go to church sat nights usually). I thought of this as well as a solution but not fond of a team coming to westchester for second game....

Why not ask the Sluggers?.

Notice the start times allowing adequate time for travel.

This stays true to the old format while allowing your two Saturday games all without punishing the top seeds, and having semifinal games on less than par fields. Don't see a down side here.

THE DOC wrote:Finally a suggestion of a solution instead of bashing (I go to church sat nights usually). I thought of this as well as a solution but not fond of a team coming to westchester for second game....

I think the solution above is the best and most fair. It is unfortunate that the #1 and #3 seeds play at the same field, which costs the Ropes a deserved home game. I don't have an answer for that issue.

As for a team coming to Westchester for a second game:
A) It's better than having 4 teams go to Queens, and
B) I think whoever wins the game in Queens will be more than happy to have won and have the opportunity to come to Westchester.

Dave, your main issue of all games being played on Saturday is satisfied, and your secondary issue of less traveling is satisfied. I think this is how it should have been from the beginning.

Franchise23 wrote:Why not ask the Sluggers?.

Notice the start times allowing adequate time for travel.

This stays true to the old format while allowing your two Saturday games all without punishing the top seeds, and having semifinal games on less than par fields. Don't see a down side here.

Everything said above makes great sense. It would be nice to have a system that most agree on rather than one that everyone is opposed to.

So you guys agree that the Ropes become the ONLY team that takes it up the ASS, even though we are a higher seed than 5 other teams... lol you guys are too funny....


lets pretend we did consider this....





IF we actually agreed to be the sole losers in this equation, .....If you think we would start by 9 a.m. when it will be about 39 degrees out... you are even funnier than I thought in the last paragraph...



...Spring (2011) we had a scenario where the home team of a playoff game #1 had us wait almost two hours later than the scheduled start time, to play against the winner (we had a bye)... ... they did not start on time because they were reluctant to take BP first, as the traveling team was late getting there. They wouldn't take BP until the late arriving, traveling team took their BP first..... but now we are supposed to start early (at our opponents home field), so we can get back in time to start right up.......


HMMMMMMMMMM I wonder if the roles were reversed, would another team do what we are being asked to do????

arrjay1 wrote:So you guys agree that the Ropes become the ONLY team that takes it up the ASS, even though we are a higher seed than 5 other teams... lol you guys are too funny....


lets pretend we did consider this....





IF we actually agreed to be the sole losers in this equation, .....If you think we would start by 9 a.m. when it will be about 39 degrees out... you are even funnier than I thought in the last paragraph...



...Spring (2011) we had a scenario where the home team of a playoff game #1 had us wait almost two hours later than the scheduled start time, to play against the winner (we had a bye)... ... they did not start on time because they were reluctant to take BP first, as the traveling team was late getting there. They wouldn't take BP until the late arriving, traveling team took their BP first..... but now we are supposed to start early (at our opponents home field), so we can get back in time to start right up.......


HMMMMMMMMMM I wonder if the roles were reversed, would another team do what we are being asked to do????

I said it was wrong for you guys to lose home field, but I don't see how to give you home field with Dave's system. I liked the old system playing Sat and Sun, which could have erased this problem, but Dave is not giving in on this for some reason.

Due to the cold I think it would be smarter for the other teams to start a half hour later, rather than you earlier.

As for delays, this whole system of playing round 1 and 2 on one day is flawed. What happens if a team does what you said, and shows no respect for others by starting way late? What happens if a game goes extra innings (my team played a 19 inning game against the Clippers a few years back)? What happens if you have 2 pitchers and only one can show on Sat?

Not to mention, it seems to kill the excitement of winning round 1 and looking forward to the next matchup the next day. It takes all the fun out of it.

There is no option that you would get a home game having the same field as the one seed.

In your opinion is that a reason to do something that makes no sense for the rest of the league?

I see the only two possible scenarios as the one above which seems to make the most sense for the majority of the teams who earned top seeds, or a whole lovely day in Queens for both of us, which would you prefer?

Your issue is not a result of my suggestion, it is because of this format which needs to be changed in the winter.

Unfortunately you guys won't get a well deserved home game, and I agree that sucks, but if we are going to play two Saturday games your not going to get one anyway you slice it. At least this way the teams that get to the next round don't have to play that game on a horrible field with a crooked wall.

I thought this was a better option for all of the top seeds vs. Dave's original plan, yours included. Are you saying your team would rather play both games in Queens?

Franchise23 wrote:There is no option that you would get a home game having the same field as the one seed.

As you know from speaking to me earlier today when you called me, you know that I was not looking to get a home game for my team...

What's good for the entire league is not really my problem, as this whole format is basically "get the one seed or you could be screwed"...and was never agreed upon by myself or the other captains....

I'm not saying we won't do it, but I'm not saying we definitely will either...

I really only have the one question: Would your team do what you are asking us to do??? I think the answer would be no...

and the reason why is that you guys were the team that had us sit around waiting last Spring.. lol

alot of it was not your fault as it was a very high scoring game, with 6 different pitching changes...and the road team was late getting there......etc... but when I got there you hadn't even finished taking batting practice, because for whatever reason you had to have the other team hit first....rather than take your own since they were late....



all im saying is we will think about it... no promises until we discuss it as a team...

If you have another suggestion I'm all ears. I honestly thought this was better for your team too. I really did. But if you would rather play in Queens ok, I personally think this is a better option.

And you and I agree that it sucks that we even have to deal with this new format that no one voted on.

But as far as the late playoff late start in 2011, honestly I don't remember but I challenge anyone in this league to step up and tell me that I'm not usually the first one at the field for every game.

I have no control over what other guys do, but I have never been late to a game in my life.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, just that I know I'm never late and have never cared when I take BP.

"whole format is basically "get the one seed or you could be screwed"...and was never agreed upon by myself or the other captains...."

You are right that this is a bad system. Awarding home field to only 1 team in the league is illogical, and unfair.

I don't like that only 3 of 4 teams are getting home field in round 1, and whether you believe me or not I would prefer that you also had your home game. However, if it was my team, and a higher seeded team played at the same field, then I don't know how else to solve that issue.

And if a vote is taken on something and then the vote is ignored and over ruled, then that is as wrong as wrong can be(goes w/o saying). This is another reason why voting should be done on line where everyone gets one vote, and all can see the votes. This board is a perfect environment for such a thing. It's a nice idea to get together in person for a couple beers or some kind of celebration, but the meetings for purpose of deciding issues and voting has outlived its usefulness IMO. I found it embarrassing to attend in order to vote for your teammates (or self) for awards. Rules and awards should be voted on by all, not some.

Franchise23 wrote:If you have another suggestion I'm all ears. I honestly thought this was better for your team too. I really did. But if you would rather play in Queens ok, I personally think this is a better option.

And you and I agree that it sucks that we even have to deal with this new format that no one voted on.

But as far as the late playoff late start in 2011, honestly I don't remember but I challenge anyone in this league to step up and tell me that I'm not usually the first one at the field for every game.

I have no control over what other guys do, but I have never been late to a game in my life.

Steve I know you are never late..... your opponent was... and for whatever reason you guys held off on your BP, even though you knew that win or lose we were to play the winner directly after...

whatever... not really important over a year later....

but again I will ask you: Would your team do what you are asking us to do???

arrjay1 wrote:

Franchise23 wrote:If you have another suggestion I'm all ears. I honestly thought this was better for your team too. I really did. But if you would rather play in Queens ok, I personally think this is a better option.

And you and I agree that it sucks that we even have to deal with this new format that no one voted on.

But as far as the late playoff late start in 2011, honestly I don't remember but I challenge anyone in this league to step up and tell me that I'm not usually the first one at the field for every game.

I have no control over what other guys do, but I have never been late to a game in my life.

Steve I know you are never late..... your opponent was... and for whatever reason you guys held off on your BP, even though you knew that win or lose we were to play the winner directly after...

whatever... not really important over a year later....

but again I will ask you: Would your team do what you are asking us to do???

Honestly I wouldn't know how I would react unless I was in the position. I would imagine it would go like this:

I would be pissed, I would feel singled out, I would curse Dave out numerous times for how stupid this format is, would start to contemplate running my own league, realize I'm far to lazy, give up on that idea, and ultimately realize that if the 1 seed had the same home field as me than this it is a better choice than going to Queens.

Then I would show up to the field, wish I still had a fastball, pour on a half gallon of icy hot on my arm, battle through the pain and hopefully make a run at the championship.

Now you know me pretty well, does that sound about right? Don't know if I could be more honest than that.

Franchise23 wrote:

arrjay1 wrote:

Franchise23 wrote:If you have another suggestion I'm all ears. I honestly thought this was better for your team too. I really did. But if you would rather play in Queens ok, I personally think this is a better option.

And you and I agree that it sucks that we even have to deal with this new format that no one voted on.

But as far as the late playoff late start in 2011, honestly I don't remember but I challenge anyone in this league to step up and tell me that I'm not usually the first one at the field for every game.

I have no control over what other guys do, but I have never been late to a game in my life.

Steve I know you are never late..... your opponent was... and for whatever reason you guys held off on your BP, even though you knew that win or lose we were to play the winner directly after...

whatever... not really important over a year later....

but again I will ask you: Would your team do what you are asking us to do???

Honestly I wouldn't know how I would react unless I was in the position. I would imagine it would go like this:

I would be pissed, I would feel singled out, I would curse Dave out numerous times for how stupid this format is, would start to contemplate running my own league, realize I'm far to lazy, give up on that idea, and ultimately realize that if the 1 seed had the same home field as me than this it is a better choice than going to Queens.

Then I would show up to the field, wish I still had a fastball, pour on a half gallon of icy hot on my arm, battle through the pain and hopefully make a run at the championship.

Now you know me pretty well, does that sound about right? Don't know if I could be more honest than that.

For the third time ... I said what would your TEAM do, not you.....lol